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Re: WP7 for iPhone and Android Developers - Introduction to C#

SocalSam — Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:09:37 GMT

The tools and garbage collection argument, seriously? The worse programs that I ever encountered are written by people who think they can do better than the GC. Usually the programmers who insist that the use of tools to simplify or the GC to make sure to use the builtin memory management do not play with others.

Accusing people who use built in tools is like the John Henry myth in the United States. Old John Henry used the sledgehammer to drive those railroad spikes and couldn't win against the steam hammer. Take a lesson, the tools that simplify and the GC will win. There is too much computing power to force the creative minds to put up with C++, or even long term Java or C#. The creative don't want to struggle with the arcane processes of object oriented software.

So if you think that C++, or even any object oriented programming language will remain for the creative groups of people, then it is time to move on and get more efficient. C++ and it's family will be used for tools for awhile and then disappear as the powerful computers/consoles of the future come into play.

Bottom line: Quit accusing the non-programming, but creative people of being newbs, frankly they are only going to need the "toolmakers" for a short time. Software is a service, and the human race lived for many millenium without it.

RE: WP7 for iPhone and Android Developers - Introduction to C#

stephc — Fri, 13 May 2011 11:53:17 GMT

I agree one this point : it's a matter of opinion, and choice.

The problem is when we don't have choice to use a different memory management policy.

There is something I don't get, why are you considering that the job should be made easier?

You may attract some new, inexperienced developers, lazy or not-so-smart guys, but where is the value in this?

It's pretty hard to consider that products created with "simpler" tools will be better in the end, in my world, this is quite the opposite.

Look twice at the XBox, all the retail games are made with C++, all XBLA games too, only the "amateur" games are made with XNA.

PS2 and PS3 are notoriously hard to program for, but look at the games...

RE: WP7 for iPhone and Android Developers - Introduction to C#

Kevin Hoffman — Thu, 12 May 2011 20:56:53 GMT

It is worth noting that a very large number of games... commercial, high-budget, successful games ... for the Xbox 360 were developed using XNA. That means managed, garbage-collected code. The idea that the mere presence of garbage collection causes such a performance hit that it should be shunned unilaterally is myopic. It isn't the presence of GC that makes a system perform slowly - it's what the developer does with their own objects that can cause the GC to perform poorly or properly.

RE: WP7 for iPhone and Android Developers - Introduction to C#

Kevin Hoffman — Thu, 12 May 2011 20:52:23 GMT

There's a fine line between flaming and presenting your own viewpoint. As mentioned in the article, garbage collection is a convenience that allows developers to (ideally) spend more time thinking about how their application is going to work and less time thinking about how many other objects are referring to other objects, and so on. Also mentioned in the article - this is not an excuse for throwing caution to the wind and thinking "i'm in a GC'd environment, I can do whatever the hell I want". Both GC and reference counting have their own pros and cons and it is arguably a matter of -opinion- as to whether you prefer one over the other.

RE: WP7 for iPhone and Android Developers - Introduction to C#

stephc — Thu, 12 May 2011 20:39:20 GMT

This is absolute crap.

I stopped reading after the Memory Management bullshit, GC is one of the worst invention ever.

I consider developers who don't even know how to use memory properly to be stupid newbs.

Give me C++/OpenGL.

We don't need dumbed down tools, period.

Microsoft is losing mind share very quickly here, especially among experienced games developers.

RE: WP7 for iPhone and Android Developers - Introduction to C#

Tony — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:26:58 GMT

Very nice and fun to read.

Thanks!